Thread: A Treatise on Designing a Better RuneScape Private Server

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  1. #11  
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    Smart. Good read, I like the way you look at things.
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."


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    An interesting read. However, some aspects that you mention don't add anything but add more fuel to the fire. E.g. Woodcutting, Smithing, Cooking, Crafting, etc. Adding custom items and objects doesn't add anything to the game. Of course, it does add more content that might be somewhat unique but that is just a matter of time before other servers take advantage of it. Take a look at Illerai, which had several custom bosses with unique mechanics. It was cool, but after a month or two there were already servers that had stolen the models and added it as a power creep. While it wasn't as good as Illerai, it still became less "fun" when other servers adapated the concept and took advantage of the available resoures.

    The problem is that new concepts and ideas will alienate the players from runescape. E.g. critical hits from combat will have a big impact on PvP. If you exclude it from PvP, it will confuse the players. Why can I land critical hits in PvM but not in PvP? How does this apply to minigames, events, etc? Once again, Illerai had already added some of your ideas. E.g. Stat reduction, bleeding, parrying hits, toxicity, etc were all added to the game. Did players like it? Yes and no. PvP players hated it, and PvMers were somewhat neutral. They liked the addition of new mechanics, but didn't like the fact that they had to spend time to learn something which wouldn't be applicable anywhere else.

    In other words, while some of your ideas are good - No one is going to use them, just like your map. The RSPS scene really isn't a place to be innovative when it comes to game mechanics as the targeted audience actually prefers power creep. See Reddit, RS3, OSRS, and more or less all RSPS that have a take on it. You'd be better off dedicating time and resources to a game outside of Runescape. A new MMORPG, or a new game in development always love these takes and would be more willing to add them in comparison to the RS community.
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  4. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverNova View Post
    Adding custom items and objects doesn't add anything to the game. Of course, it does add more content that might be somewhat unique but that is just a matter of time before other servers take advantage of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by SilverNova View Post
    In other words, while some of your ideas are good - No one is going to use them, just like your map.
    You contradicted yourself a bit there.

    Besides, he's posting these ideas publicly because he wants them to be adopted. His intention is to spark innovation in the scene. If a server popularizes one of his suggestions to the point where others start to copy it, Waldo is only accomplishing his goal of helping servers to further deviate from the OSRS formula. It's unfortunate that you feel the need to be so negative. Sure, it's unlikely that a project will use -all- of what he's outlined, but people are free to pick and choose what they like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jigsaw View Post
    You contradicted yourself a bit there.

    Besides, he's posting these ideas publicly because he wants them to be adopted. His intention is to spark innovation in the scene. If a server popularizes one of his suggestions to the point where others start to copy it, Waldo is only accomplishing his goal of helping servers to further deviate from the OSRS formula. It's unfortunate that you feel the need to be so negative. Sure, it's unlikely that a project will use -all- of what he's outlined, but people are free to pick and choose what they like.
    I wouldn't call myself negative, but rather realistic. I personally would love to see his ideas implemented. Even one or two of them. Honestly, I'm all PRO new game mechanics and would love to see a change in the scene. However, over a decade of RSPS history has shown that those servers willing to go out of their way to create a unique experience have a tendency to crash and burn before they even make their server public. There's not even 10 servers that were "revolutionary" in terms of combat mechanics, maps, skill designs, etc in contrast to the hundreds of thousand servers that were successfully hosted as a grab & go. That's why I pointed out that he would be better off spending his time writing ideas for something that isn't (as history has shown) doomed to fail. But, it's his choice. I'm not one to speak on his behalf.
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    Haven't read your full document but I thought I'd just add my thoughts with the overall topic at hand.

    I'm not saying that it doesn't hurt to be more unique, but there's a reason why there's so many OSRS based servers around - they're what's popular. A lot of newer owners who are less experienced sadly don't care for unique content, they just want bragging rights over peak (usually modifier) player counts and use it as a symbol for a showing servers success (in their eyes).

    There have been numerous OSRS based projects on here that had a lot of unique content that never made it out of the projects section unfortunately. As for other revisions, well they're basically dead so unless you mix OSRS content in they'll just be dead as fuck.

    Also, as sad as it sounds, a lot of rsps players are sheep. It's the same with the commonly asked question about "why do most servers use edgeville as a home area?". Simply because it's what a lot of players are used to and are familiar with. If you start adding content that's quite different from vanilla RS (custom servers aside) then I know that in some cases it might actually turn players away rather than draw them in.

    I realise I'm speaking from more of a business standpoint but yeah.


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  9. #16  
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    Okay, finally read it all. I must say though, I love your work, but I do agree with SilverNova on this one. The problem with drastic changes such as the ones proposed in this treatise is that it forgets the origin of RuneScape private servers: ease. This notion of reducing x y and z output and slowing down a b c methods will not work out for you as it, as SilverNova says, will alienate players from your server. Trust me, I know, and so does SilverNova. We've both been quite strong advocates a few years back for what you propose.

    What a lot of our ideas fail to realize is what makes a player play a RuneScape Private Server; we fixate too much on why players play RuneScape as a whole. We approach RSPS with too much of a grandier game design idea rather than realizing we are in a subspace of a greater (in size) game. When we realize why players play RSPS, it is only then we can try to reimagine RS correctly. RuneScape is considered a very grindy game. Your treatise greatly undermines that and at times presents RuneScape as if it is a fast paced game with economic consequences due to that pace. This principal cannot be used in RSPS. We must realize the origin of a RSPS player is from the grindy RuneScape, and instead of trying to make the grind harder (with hopes of them appreciating it due to some "reimagination" we have that many will not care for), we must try to reimagine it such that the grind is the same and/or easier. You've seen my Slayer idea King Waldo; it was made with that philosophy. After all, why would I go from my highly accomplished RS account to a noob in an RSPS with less promise of longevity, more bugs, less content, less players (therefore less friends playing), and now more grind? I find a lot of us "creative" individuals have lost touch with RSPS community in its entirety, simply dismissing them as "not open to change" or "closed minded," maybe even "negative." We have to deal with the reality of the RSPS scene rather than loathe how bad everything is. It leads to us being seemingly pretentious really.

    I would address each and every idea of yours in the PDF, but I can't right now. Perhaps when I have more time and energy.

    I'm sorry I couldn't agree with you on most of your points after such a great effort on your part. A lot of your ideas would probably be more receptive amongst the higher revision community. But, seeing as most of your assets were seemingly designed for OSRS, I must speak from the OSRS community's point of view. If this was RS3, I would refer you to the many, many changes they have done that address many of your points. Perhaps you can get some input on that end to further get more statistics for your claims? Examples of changes done in RS3 include your Smithing and Firemaking proposals.
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  11. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverNova View Post
    The RSPS scene really isn't a place to be innovative when it comes to game mechanics as the targeted audience actually prefers power creep.
    I think that depends on the audience. OSRS is a testament to players wanting the older form of the game that only existed in the form of RSPSes, and now it has more active players than RS3. It drew players like myself away from RSPSes because the content was simply better, and because they were willing to do new things, which is not the case for servers.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverNova View Post
    history has shown that those servers willing to go out of their way to create a unique experience have a tendency to crash and burn before they even make their server public.
    That's very unfortunate. I don't know the history of these projects, but in the case of Jigsaw and I, our team was too small and did not have enough coding experience. Perhaps the issue is assembling the right sized team that can all agree to a manageable amount of innovation. Too much time is spent reinventing the wheel around here, but that's more so because nobody trusts one another to collaborate on open sourced projects. Your concerns that any innovation or custom maps and models are futile because they will simply be ripped illustrates this lack of trust.

    Jigsaw is entirely right that my goal to spread ideas, not to selectively share them for some self-serving end. It would be ideal for the scene as a whole to graduate beyond simply copying the latest OSRS updates, and to actually offer something different than a copy of the source content.

    Quote Originally Posted by A Furry View Post
    use edgeville as a home area?". Simply because it's what a lot of players are used to and are familiar with. If you start adding content that's quite different from vanilla RS (custom servers aside) then I know that in some cases it might actually turn players away rather than draw them in.

    I realise I'm speaking from more of a business standpoint but yeah.
    I figure that, if anything, the proliferation of this breed of custom servers (with aliens and dildos amuck) is an indication that there are players who want something different. The continued success of OSRS post-Zeah proves that the interest is there. Jagex should not be the only test ground for new content, to be ripped only once it proves to be popular. That leaves the RSPS scene in a constant state of inferiority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arham View Post
    Okay, finally read it all. I must say though, I love your work, but I do agree with SilverNova on this one. The problem with drastic changes such as the ones proposed in this treatise is that it forgets the origin of RuneScape private servers: ease. This notion of reducing x y and z output and slowing down a b c methods will not work out for you as it, as SilverNova says, will alienate players from your server.

    [...]

    RuneScape is considered a very grindy game. Your treatise greatly undermines that and at times presents RuneScape as if it is a fast paced game with economic consequences due to that pace. This principal cannot be used in RSPS. We must realize the origin of a RSPS player is from the grindy RuneScape, and instead of trying to make the grind harder (with hopes of them appreciating it due to some "reimagination" we have that many will not care for), we must try to reimagine it such that the grind is the same and/or easier.
    I apologize if this was not clear, but I advocate for less grind. Section 3.2 recommends creating, wherever possible, two streams for skilling: the existing grind, and something more interactive that rewards players with a higher XP rate. The only skill change that I suggest should be more complex (perhaps this is interpreted as a grind) is cooking, but that has much more to do with revitalizing existing RS content. Even that doesn't need to be a grind if you design a proper world that makes it easier to gather ingredients (not the case in RS). I personally believe that farming should be much quicker and simplified for this reason. Tangentially related, but I also mention in section 3.9 that hunter and their warding proposal were overly complicated.

    On the matter of reducing output, that has much more to do with tackling inflation (to create a sound economy) than impacting the grind. If anything, reduced output keeps players out in the world more as they will not have to bank as often, which means more time actually engaging with content (touched on in section 1.2). Reducing output need not slow down levelling; developers may tweak the XP rate to whatever makes sense for their server. I deliberately avoid talking about XP rates because that is a personal choice. I suppose that the degree of player-to-player exchange, as opposed to buying everything from shops, is also a choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arham View Post
    You've seen my Slayer idea King Waldo; it was made with that philosophy.

    [...]

    I find a lot of us "creative" individuals have lost touch with RSPS community in its entirety, simply dismissing them as "not open to change" or "closed minded," maybe even "negative." We have to deal with the reality of the RSPS scene rather than loathe how bad everything is. It leads to us being seemingly pretentious really.
    I quite like your slayer idea. I chose not to discuss lore in this document because what makes good lore is more subjective than "more tree types makes for a prettier landscape". The replies in this thread show that there are people on both sides of this question. My reasoning for wanting more change is that we can leverage such possibilities to draw in new players. It isn't very ambitious of the scene to slosh the same dozen thousand players around a couple identical OSRS emulations. That certainly isn't enough to draw me to any one server. As it stands, OSRS simply has more content, and there isn't anything that I'm aware of that offers something different that actually looks fun. I wanna do my part to change that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arham View Post
    If this was RS3, I would refer you to the many, many changes they have done that address many of your points. Perhaps you can get some input on that end to further get more statistics for your claims? Examples of changes done in RS3 include your Smithing and Firemaking proposals.
    I've never played RS3, but it's nice to hear that they recognized the issues with some of their skills. I wouldn't know how to prove that these are a good idea beyond explaining the principles behind them (e.g. firemaking is boring, and smithing seldom serves its original purpose to create armour that you will use).

    I appreciate all of the replies!
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  13. #18  
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    Loved the article, good job on writing this!
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    King Waldo, your Treatise is extraordinary. Thanks for the time and energy it took to put this together for the RSPS Community.
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    Very well detailed, I like the way you look at this.

    3.4.1
    this can be further extended with the Herblore skill; if you extract some oils from some plants/herbs you can spread this on the log for an effect on your food you cook. Either beneficial, or poisonous depending on your level and or oils added
    PI * 13.37 = 42
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