Thread: Why does apollo use ruby plugins?

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  1. #1 Why does apollo use ruby plugins? 
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    I tried asking this question in the shout box, however the responses I got were "stfu retard", "err not really", etc.. none of these proved to be helpful in telling my why ruby was a better alternative to java based plugins.

    A lot of people might read this and go "you'r retarded", but I argue you hear me out and correct me if I'm wrong.

    This is a question that I've been thinking of for a while and thought this would be the appropriate place to post it. The question is why does apollo use ruby plugins? , wasn't apollo released to be used by the community?. Forget ruby, Did graham not realize that most of the community doesn't even know java? .

    Some arguments i've heard implying that the use of ruby was beneficial were,

    -Ruby is a scripting language so it's faster to develop content.

    But if you combine the time it would take to learn ruby, then write the code. It would ultimately end up costing more of your time. Not to mention in ruby you are still writing code, it doesn't automatically write code for you.

    -you don't have to compile your code in ruby reducing your development time even further,

    This argument is valid if you don't use tools like Jrebel or debug run in eclipse, which compile code while your server is running.

    I have also heard members say ruby is easy to learn so you should use it,

    but I find this response quite useless, it's like saying instead of riding a bike to the park (which i've been doing for quite a while) I should learn to ride a skateboard and ride that instead because it's easy to learn how to ride a skateboard.

    Alternatives :

    I thought a better alternative would have been a java based plugin system like bukkit.



    So can you guys provide some insight to why the use of ruby or any scripting language in development vs java based plugins is better.

    I should add that for some of you this is a retarded question, but I urge you to actually write why it's retarded. Not to mention that members of this community should answer questions like this to teach everyone why something is a good practice or bad, ultimately helping us improve.

    I should add that people rejected apollo because they felt unless they knew ruby they couldn't develop efficiently on it. A lot of the users also simply scrapped the ruby scripting system.

    Thanks for reading,
    inb4flame
     

  2. #2  
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    Ruby is an amazing language to work with, and honestly doesn't take much time to learn. I guess he didn't mind that the community didn't know it as a mass majority. I took his lead and in all of my bases/sources I've worked with implemented systems similar to what was in Apollo because I enjoy working with it so much.
     

  3. #3  
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    OP i totally agree with you if apollo wouldnt have any ruby shit i think i would use it. Same goes for severs with python scripting i just prefer everything in java. (And i dont know ruby and cba to learn it)

    But oh well we cant force Graham to make stuff just for the community to use i think it was more practical to him i guess?
     

  4. #4  
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    Well from how your saying it is that you are forced to use ruby? You can everything in java but the point of Apollo's design was for content to be done in ruby so its not in the core.



     

  5. #5  
    I don't take you serious
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poesy700 View Post
    OP i totally agree with you if apollo wouldnt have any ruby shit i think i would use it. Same goes for severs with python scripting i just prefer everything in java. (And i dont know ruby and cba to learn it)

    But oh well we cant force Graham to make stuff just for the community to use i think it was more practical to him i guess?
    1) Why would you complain about a faster way of doing things? Personally I'd rather it not be as over-used as it is in Apollo, hence why during my last project I refused to use it for specific things that I felt were fine in Java (and user preference).

    2) If you want Apollo without Ruby - download Hyperion. If you prefer one over the other outside of user preference you're a serious idiot especially given that hardly anyone who's ever used either Apollo or Hyperion had a server with over 200 players. (To this day I think Harry's Apocalyptism still stands at the top, at 140 players in 2010 using Hyperion?)

    3) If you're not willing to learn or bare minimum learn to make choices around things you don't like, I pity your future as a being. Forget what other people on this website say and pick user-preference over the conformity because with either Hyperion or Apollo you have all the room you could ever like to do anything the way you'd like (unless you do some mega retarded shit) and it will still perform better than WL.

     

  6. #6  
    only shallow

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kastro View Post
    If you want Apollo without Ruby - download Hyperion.
    That'd be a huge downgrade. Apollo is way more than Hyperion with Ruby.
     


  7. #7  
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    Tbh anyone complaining about learning Ruby is just a retard, if you're already familiar with Programming in one language, it doesn't take long to learn a new language, it's just different syntax really. You could argue if you already know how to do something in one language why go learn a new language to do the exact same thing, well my answer to that is; why not learn the language and expand your knowledge. There may be other situations where Ruby may be a more appropriate language to use, later.
     


  8. #8  
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    You could just use a different language if ruby is not your thing...
     


  9. #9  
    SERGEANT OF THE MASTER SERGEANTS MOST IMPORTANT PERSON OF EXTREME SERGEANTS TO THE MAX!

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    Writing content in Java is a lot more verbose. Ruby does not take long to learn and once you're good at it, you can write beautiful content that's DRY, readable and fast to develop

    Quote Originally Posted by _js5 View Post
    Ruby is an amazing language to work with, and honestly doesn't take much time to learn. I guess he didn't mind that the community didn't know it as a mass majority. I took his lead and in all of my bases/sources I've worked with implemented systems similar to what was in Apollo because I enjoy working with it so much.
    Too bad you mauled the code and made it horrible

    Quote Originally Posted by Project 474 View Post
    Asgarnia is based on RuneSource and has Python. I don't even know Python but it's incredibly similar to Java and I was able to learn it in a few minutes. It's nice because it keeps all the clickingobjects, iteminteractions etc out of the main files.

    Code:
    def objectOptionOne_chest(player):
        if player.getClickId() == 10284:
        Barrows.openChest(player)

    Where "chest" is literally the name of the object we're clicking. Obviously, there's lots of chests so we want to open the one with a specific id. Boom. It's done.
    Horrible

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  10. #10  
    Why does apollo use ruby plugins?



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    The question is why does apollo use ruby plugins? , wasn't apollo released to be used by the community?. Forget ruby, Did graham not realize that most of the community doesn't even know java? .
    So by this logic Apollo shouldn't of been written in java either? Honestly making no logical sense here bud.


    Quote Originally Posted by flimsy View Post
    But if you combine the time it would take to learn ruby, then write the code. It would ultimately end up costing more of your time. Not to mention in ruby you are still writing code, it doesn't automatically write code for you.
    Anyone who knows any half decent language can pick up ruby easily, it's incredibly similar to Java just less verbose.

    Your point about it "not writing code for you" is a bit irrelevant, Java doesn't do this either so..?

    Also you saying it would take more time to write is actually contradictory as Java is more verbose and thus you will spend longer time physically writing the code than in Ruby.


    -you don't have to compile your code in ruby reducing your development time even further,

    This argument is valid if you don't use tools like Jrebel or debug run in eclipse, which compile code while your server is running.
    Lol no idea who's using that example, anyone who is using an IDE will run+autocompile to test the Ruby plugins anyway, same as they would w/ java.


    I have also heard members say ruby is easy to learn so you should use it,

    but I find this response quite useless, it's like saying instead of riding a bike to the park (which i've been doing for quite a while) I should learn to ride a skateboard and ride that instead because it's easy to learn how to ride a skateboard.
    That analogy is incredibly flawed, it's nothing like that.

    The idea behind using Ruby is that Ruby is a lot less verbose than Java and a lot easier to learn, thus new individuals entering the RSPS scene can understand an easier language than Java. Also it would mean new people wouldn't have to even touch Java to make edits such as giving themselves admin, spawning some npcs and trivial stuff like that.


    Alternatives :

    I thought a better alternative would have been a java based plugin system like bukkit.
    It's not better. Bukkit is awfully executed. Java is not a language that is well suited to scripted content which games like RS mainly are, that's what scripting languages are for.


    I should add that people rejected apollo because they felt unless they knew ruby they couldn't develop efficiently on it. A lot of the users also simply scrapped the ruby scripting system.
    If they know Java they practically know Ruby. With the simplicity of the apollo plugins, it makes the languages nearly identical other than in their syntax (if end instead of if{} etc). Within about 10 minutes of studying the code provided with Apollo anyone who has a half decent understanding of Java should be fine with it.

    Furthermore the people that are rejecting to work on a base simply because it "uses ruby" aren't exactly the people we even want writing code for apollo because it will just turn into a c&p mess like wL and its derivatives.


    Quote Originally Posted by Poesy700 View Post
    OP i totally agree with you if apollo wouldnt have any ruby shit i think i would use it. Same goes for severs with python scripting i just prefer everything in java. (And i dont know ruby and cba to learn it)
    "i dont know ruby" have you even looked at the code... it's incredibly similar to Java lol, takes literally no effort to learn unless you're a noob/bad programmer.


    But oh well we cant force Graham to make stuff just for the community to use i think it was more practical to him i guess?
    on the contrary, use of ruby plugins was meant for new users to easily edit content without having to learn Java, as Ruby is a lot easier to learn and a lot less verbose.
    Last edited by Scu11; 10-25-2013 at 02:29 PM.

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