Thread: Who here is willingly voting for Trump knowing he’s a dictator?

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  1. #151  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
    Completely incorrect, especially when it comes to the "second" term of Hitler, he used the SDP to his advantage and that's how the party was merged into the collective of the Nazis.
    The SDP were the only party in the Reichstag to vote against the Enabling Act. In so far as there was any co-operation between the two it was to put down violence from the KPD. What do you mean 'second term' of Hitler? Hitler was appointed Chancellor by Paul von Hindenburg (a veteran of WW1) who was President of the Weimar Republic after the success of the Nazis in the 1932 elections.
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  3. #153  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Cape View Post
    The SDP were the only party in the Reichstag to vote against the Enabling Act. In so far as there was any co-operation between the two it was to put down violence from the KPD. What do you mean 'second term' of Hitler? Hitler was appointed Chancellor by Paul von Hindenburg (a veteran of WW1) who was President of the Weimar Republic after the success of the Nazis in the 1932 elections.
    So, once again I don't agree nor disagree. As these are factual pieces of information

    However when I refer to the idea of "democratic" being sold under the party, it is the equivalent of the people in this thread whom have said "I support bernie and am now voting trump" -> same exact scenario except flash back to WW2

    There is a reason why I put "second" in quotes, Hitler was elected as you said, however remember that he was appointed, but he forced the appointment because of his political support from the Conservatives within Germany.

    Flash forward a little bit (As This happens in January of 1933)... Hitler passed the "Enabling Act" in March of 1933 which gives him full dictatorship control. -> only 3 Months later

    But I'm just glad we can all agree in anti-imperialistic actions

    I really think that it is scary that with all the support Hitler had politically he could pass any law he so chose, and that quite frankly could happen again under Trump, Mix that with the supreme court and article 2, and you have a "Recipe for Disaster" (Pun intended)
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  4. #154  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
    So, once again I don't agree nor disagree. As these are factual pieces of information

    However when I refer to the idea of "democratic" being sold under the party, it is the equivalent of the people in this thread whom have said "I support bernie and am now voting trump" -> same exact scenario except flash back to WW2

    There is a reason why I put "second" in quotes, Hitler was elected as you said, however remember that he was appointed, but he forced the appointment because of his political support from the Conservatives within Germany.

    Flash forward a little bit (As This happens in January of 1933)... Hitler passed the "Enabling Act" in March of 1933 which gives him full dictatorship control.

    But I'm just glad we can all agree in anti-imperialistic actions
    The last multi-party democratic elections held in the Weimar Republic were the March 1933 elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_...deral_election

    In these elections the following parties participated:

    The NSDAP - Nazis (extreme German nationalists who were anti-Semitic)
    The SDP - Social democrats (socialists who wanted moderate reform in favour of workers rights)
    The KPD - Communists (mostly Soviet sympathisers)
    The Centre - German liberals and Catholics (Germany was mostly Protestant so a Catholic party won many votes from the large Catholic minority)
    The DNVP - German conservatives (less extreme German nationalists)
    The BVP - German liberals and Catholic Bavarian separatists.

    You can note three things:

    1. The elections were not exactly fair due to Nazi intimidation.
    2. The SDP are clearly opponents of the Nazis, the DNVP formed a coalition with the NSDAP.
    3. The only party that described itself as democratic was the SDP.

    The Nazis were never a democratic party. They never used the term in the party. That word caused absolute hatred in their hearts because of the fact it was associated with Germany's defeat in WW1.
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  7. #156  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Cape View Post
    The last multi-party democratic elections held in the Weimar Republic were the March 1933 elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_...deral_election

    In these elections the following parties participated:

    The NSDAP - Nazis (extreme German nationalists who were anti-Semitic)
    The SDP - Social democrats (socialists who wanted moderate reform in favour of workers rights)
    The KPD - Communists (mostly Soviet sympathisers)
    The Centre - German liberals and Catholics (Germany was mostly Protestant so a Catholic party won many votes from the large Catholic minority)
    The DNVP - German conservatives (less extreme German nationalists)
    The BVP - German liberals and Catholic Bavarian separatists.

    You can note three things:

    1. The elections were not exactly fair due to Nazi intimidation.
    2. The SDP are clearly opponents of the Nazis, the DNVP formed a coalition with the NSDAP.
    3. The only party that described itself as democratic was the SDP.

    The Nazis were never a democratic party. They never used the term in the party. That word caused absolute hatred in their hearts because of the fact it was associated with Germany's defeat in WW1.
    March of 1933 is when the Enabling Act was passed https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/conte...ollowing%20day.

    So with the information you presented, I dont disagree at all.

    However not everything is kept correctly in record.

    The "Nazis" were never a democratic party is not very fair to say, as Hitler was elected, so in reality there is a form of "democracy" within it that is embedded with the term.

    Also, just because they didn't like the term, doesn’t mean they didn't used the term to their advantage & doesn't necessarily have any implications towards what happened to members of the SDP.

    Remember that SDP is considered an "Alt-Left", and members did switch parties from there Very similar to how Trump likes to tell Biden that he lost the "Radical Left" As members such as the individuals in this thread are voting Trump b/c Bernie is no longer running
    Last edited by Andrew; 10-17-2020 at 03:36 PM.
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  8. #157  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
    March of 1933 is when the Enabling Act was passed https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/conte...ollowing%20day.

    So with the your information I dont disagree at all.

    However not everything kept correctly in record.

    The "Nazis" were never a democratic party is not very fair to say, as Hitler was elected, so in reality there is a form of "democracy" within it that is embedded with the term.

    Also, just because they didn't like the term, does mean they didn't used the term, doesn't necessarily have any implications towards what happened to members of the SDP.

    Remember that SDP is considered an "Alt-Left", and members did switch parties from there Very similar to how Trump likes to tell Biden that he lost the "Radical Left" As members such as the individuals in this thread are voting Trump b/c Bernie is no longer running
    The only places the SDP moved to were Prague or Austria (if they were lucky) and then the concentration camps. Trust me there was very few crossers. Like I said the SDP were the only ones who opposed the Enabling Act and to say they joined forces with the Nazis does not do justice to the fact they were the only party still within the parliamentary system who spoke out against Hitler despite the obvious threats to their lives from doing so.

    I challenge you to find a single primary source where the Nazis are self-described as democratic. They came to power within the democratic system of the Weimar Republic yes, on the platform that they would destroy it.
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  9. #158  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Cape View Post
    The only places the SDP moved to were Prague or Austria (if they were lucky) and then the concentration camps. Trust me there was very few crossers. Like I said the SDP were the only ones who opposed the Enabling Act and to say they joined forces with the Nazis does not do justice to the fact they were the only party still within the parliamentary system who spoke out against Hitler despite the obvious threats to their lives from doing so.

    I challenge you to find a single primary source where the Nazis are self-described as democratic. They came to power within the democratic system of the Weimar Republic yes, on the platform that they would destroy it.

    To find that would like finding a needle in the haystack, and frankly not worth the point of any of this discussion, to say that a party doesn't use a term to gain new support is just not right nor fair to say. Promises can filled with lies, as that was what Hitler was promoting.

    Please do remember though that the National Socialist German Workers Party (Nazis) were all about a "people's community" & that in itself is pretty democratic as far as Im concerned, and is how some (not all by any means) switched parties, & frankly to ignore the fact that there are individuals in this thread whom have done the same from switching sides, is what showcases what I am trying to bring forth.

    Don't forget also, that the Nazis had 107 Seats Filled in the Government and all 107 of those people were "democratically" elected in the 1930s

    Also! Please keep sharing all these pieces of information! I love it!
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  10. #159  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
    To find that would like finding a needle in the haystack, and frankly not worth the point of any of this discussion, to say that a party doesn't use a term to gain new support is just not right nor fair to say. Promises can filled with lies, as that was what Hitler was promoting.

    Please do remember though that the National Socialist German Workers Party (Nazis) were all about a "people's community" & that in itself is pretty democratic as far as Im concerned, and is how some (not all by any means) switched parties, & frankly to ignore the fact that there are individuals in this thread whom have done the same from switching sides.

    Don't forget also, that the Nazis had 107 Seats Filled in the Government and all 107 of those people were "democratically" elected in the 1930s
    The people community is called the Volksgemeinschaft. It isn't about democracy, it is about the German people being a single ethnic group. The Nazis liked to present themselves as grassroots activists, and in some places they were very popular even without threats of violence. However being popular has nothing to do with democracy. Stalin is still popular in Russia but no one calls him a democrat.

    At the time of the Reichstag fire they actually had 288 seats. The socialist party had 120, the communists had 81 but were banned from participating so they were only allowed to exist to split the left wing vote.

    I don't think it's fair to compare the SDP to people in this thread switching sides. No one here has been sent to a political prisoner camp for what they believe in.
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  11. #160  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Cape View Post
    The people community is called the Volksgemeinschaft. It isn't about democracy, it is about the German people being a single ethnic group. The Nazis liked to present themselves as grassroots activists, and in some places they were very popular even without threats of violence. However being popular has nothing to do with democracy. Stalin is still popular in Russia but no one calls him a democrat.

    At the time of the Reichstag fire they actually had 288 seats. The socialist party had 120, the communists had 81 but were banned from participating so they were only allowed to exist to split the left wing vote.

    I don't think it's fair to compare the SDP to people in this thread switching sides. No one here has been sent to a political prisoner camp for what they believe in.
    So I guess let me first just clear something in the air since we're far down this rabbit hole and there is some good information present in this thread.

    I have no problem with removing "Democratic" to my understanding of the parties involved with the Nazis and whom merged, and frankly removing that term, doesn't hurt any of my beliefs, the facts, or lessens anything in regards to what types of parties were involved, as-well as the irony in the naming of the party.

    There is however, an issue of hindsight in this conversation. We are presented with all the facts, data, and information, as this has all occurred. And to say that just because a party dissolved, doesnt mean that those members whom were in there stayed following the same ideals and principles. (As seen with the 1964 "Democratic" Party)

    (Also the 107, is pre-fires, from the 1930 election when they had 6.5 million votes and 107 sitting members)

    But Firecape, you know you bring up an EXCELLENT point, (seriously) and if I could give you rep for this, I would give you rep 10-times over and that is...
    I don't think it's fair to compare the SDP to people in this thread switching sides. No one here has been sent to a political prisoner camp for what they believe in.
    But the question is, is do you know why this is an excellent observation?

    No one here has been sent to a political prisoner camp for what they believe in.
    No on here has been sent to a camp... YET....

    Just as Hitler abolished, denounced, and executed members of all opposing parties... The SAME exact thing may occur again, as Hitler outlawed all of these groups in the SAME MONTH as passing the Enabling Act.

    And could very well happen again, People in this very thread could be sentenced to the same situation as they once were and that is the whole absolute reason as to why this thread was made, so that WE DO NOT REPEAT HISTORY and look back once again at a hindsight point of view.

    Freedom to the People!

    ~Ziva is off the list, he has Denounced Nazism & Trump.

    Anyone else care to join him?
    Last edited by Andrew; 10-16-2020 at 09:59 PM.
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