Thread: Who here is willingly voting for Trump knowing hes a dictator?

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  1. #91  
    Registered Member Andrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Cape View Post
    The scale of imperialism means nothing to the individual people concerned. The Philippine people you colonised care very little about British involvement in India. Your logic was that imperialism was something that democracies like the US did not do, when clearly they do and have done since their very existence. The US is also the largest military power in the world. Do you think its overseas military bases do not in some form constitute a form of imperialism? Because I do. But even looking historically the US had plenty of colonies, in fact you might even call it a failed colonial power because it wanted more colonies but failed to acquire them.

    The Parthenon is a building. I think you mean the Parthenon Marbles. Every museum in the world has stuff from every other country, the belief that the country of origin has any particular claim to them is jingoistic nonsense.
    "The Parthenon is a building. I think you mean the Parthenon Marbles. Every museum in the world has stuff from every other country, the belief that the country of origin has any particular claim to them is jingoistic nonsense." I cannot believe you said this. "Parthenon Marbles" ACTUALLY LOL'D; the Marbles you're referring to are actual statues [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and these are only a FRACTION of what your nation took from Greece.

    Your nation LITERALLY DESTROYED PARTS OF THE PARTHENON'S BUILDING TO TAKE BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY AND REFUSE TO GIVE IT BACK.

    If you ever travel to Greece, just go the Museum and you will gain a really big history lesson of the destruction England has done.

    "Every Nation" You mean France, oh another Imperialistic Conquerer? Have you been to the Louve?

    You are now advocating for Pro-Imperialism and have just tried to justify the actions, welcome to the list.

    We can talk all day about all of the US involvement, but the moment you ignore the scale of imperialism is the moment this conversation ended with you.
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  2. #92  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
    "The Parthenon is a building. I think you mean the Parthenon Marbles. Every museum in the world has stuff from every other country, the belief that the country of origin has any particular claim to them is jingoistic nonsense." I cannot believe you said this. "Parthenon Marbles" ACTUALLY LOL'D; the Marbles you're referring to are actual statues [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and these are only a FRACTION of what your nation took from Greece.

    Your nation LITERALLY DESTROYED PARTS OF THE PARTHENON'S BUILDING TO TAKE BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY AND REFUSE TO GIVE IT BACK.

    "Every Nation" You mean France, oh another Imperialistic Conquerer? Have you been the Louve?

    You are now advocating for Pro-Imperialism and have just tried to justify the actions, welcome to the list.

    We can talk all day about all of the US involvement, but the moment you ignore the scale of imperialism is the moment this conversation ended with you.
    Your own article uses the term 'Parthenon Marbles' so I have no idea what your issue is.

    If you knew anything about history you would know when the marbles were taken Greece was not even a sovereign country. The country was ruled by the Ottoman Empire (modern day Turkey). You would also know that the British helped them become a sovereign country by providing financial assistance. We even provided ships from the Royal Navy to help them fight the Turks so lol really.

    Your nation colonised the Philippines.

    This is all pretty irrelevant since I can acknowledge that my nation has done bad things. Whereas you cannot.

    You are no different to Trump really. Just another American nationalist. Maybe you should vote for him.
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  3. #93  
    Registered Member Andrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Cape View Post
    Your own article uses the term 'Parthenon Marbles' so I have no idea what your issue is.

    If you knew anything about history you would know when the marbles were taken Greece was not even a sovereign country. You would also know that the British helped them become one by providing financial assistance.

    Your nation colonised the Philippines.

    This is all pretty irrelevant since I can acknowledge that my nation has done bad things. Whereas you cannot.

    You are no different to Trump really. Just another American nationalist. Maybe you should vote for him.
    "Your own article uses the term 'Parthenon Marbles' so I have no idea what your issue is." you used that term, unknowingly for what it truly represents and it is very evident from the claims of the previous post. No one in Greece referrs to these as "Parthenon Marbles", but welcome to limited information.

    "If you knew anything about history you would know when the marbles were taken Greece was not even a sovereign country" , you clearly have been subjected to biased media and have no true knowledge of what occurred at the time.

    Bet you didn't know that every citizen was against it right? Bet you didn't know the England forced Greece to allow them to take it because of not only the financial position they were in, & because of the pure military strength of England.

    Travel outside of England a little bit, there are other nations outside of yours.

    "Your nation colonized the phillippes" how many times are you going to spuite that? Bet you didn't know that to make Americans more pro-liberation of the Phillippenese they went around America showcasing that they ate dogs. Oh But you wanna keep pushing forward ideas that you don't know the whole story too..

    England has been around for 500,000 Years. America has been around for 300 years.

    But let's ignore scale right?

    Ignorance is Bliss.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
    "Your own article uses the term 'Parthenon Marbles' so I have no idea what your issue is." you used that term, unknowingly for what it truly represents and it is very evident from the claims of the previous post. No one in Greece referrs to these as "Parthenon Marbles", but welcome to limited information.

    "If you knew anything about history you would know when the marbles were taken Greece was not even a sovereign country" , you clearly have been subjected to biased media and have no true knowledge of what occurred at the time.

    Bet you didn't know that every citizen was against it right? Bet you didn't know the England forced Greece to allow them to take it because of not only the financial position they were in, but because of the pure military strength of England.

    Travel outside of England a little bit, there are other nations outside of yours.

    "Your nation colonized the phillippes" how many times are you going to spuite that? Bet you didn't know that to make Americans more pro-liberation of the Phillippenese they went around America showcasing that they ate dogs. Oh But you wanna keep pushing forward ideas that you don't know the whole story too..

    England has been around for 500,000 Years. America has been around for 300 years.

    But let's ignore scale right?

    Ignorance is Bliss.
    I have been to Greece for one whereas you probably haven't so you should probably cut the travel talk.

    America has not been around for three hundred years. It was inhabited by the Native Americans a long time before that.

    It is a FACT that the Greeks were under the control of the Ottoman Empire during the taking of the marbles. Here is a good source for you to read [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Take a look at British involvement if you like. You might learn something.

    By now I can see you argue by inflating your claims and not actually dealing with substance so I am going to stop.

    Enjoy your American nationalism. Trump junior.
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  5. #95  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Cape View Post
    I have been to Greece for one whereas you probably haven't so you should probably cut the travel talk.

    America has not been around for three hundred years. It was inhabited by the Native Americans a long time before that.

    It is a FACT that the Greeks were under the control of the Ottoman Empire during the taking of the marbles. Here is a good source for you to read [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Take a look at British involvement if you like. You might learn something.

    By now I can see you argue by inflating your claims and not actually dealing with substance so I am going to stop.

    Enjoy your American nationalism. Trump junior.
    Actually lol'd again,

    "I Have been to Greece", Please elaborate where you have been, so i can give you some great suggestions on where to go.

    "America has not been around for three hundred years. It was inhabited by the Native Americans a long time before that." Actually Lol'd Again, "America" as the discussion we have it, was not called America by the Natives. 1776 is when our declaration of Independence was formed, and the moment we had a true scalable govt. put in place. Comparing the natives to this society is comparing apples and oranges.

    Being Under Ottomon Empire, does not disregard the fact of what the people wanted, what the government wanted, and the best part of you using that, just goes to show the HORRORS that come out of Imperialistic Conquerers.

    Funny enough your country literally broke off parts of the Parthenon to put on a ship for your nation, and lost the parts at sea.

    Next time you go to Greece, go to the Museum that is in walking distance of it. You can get a pass for 10 Euros and if you bring a student Id it's reduced price. And make sure to read and listen to the videos of the history of all the sculptures, and buildings that were stolen from Nations.

    Hit up my IG if you want to see some good places to travel in Greece

    Don't be a pro-monarch.

    Go learn the History of what Monarchy has done to the Global World and all the Conquering England, France, and Rome, and everyone in between have done.
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  6. #96  
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    Thessaloniki

    Ah yes, Andrew the true representative of what the Greek people wanted in 1821. Let us take his infinite wisdom over the evidence of academics who clearly point out that Greece was not an independent country until 1832, and only then because of intervention from the British, French and Russians.

    I am not pro monarchy I am pro peace, I was pointing out to you that comparing the constitutional monarchies of countries like Denmark and the Netherlands to a dictatorship is a bad faith argument. I also pointed out that claiming only monarchies practiced imperialism is wrong because the US has done it to.

    You, the little American brought up the jingoistic nonsense about how imperialism is what other countries do. I know my country is imperialistic, you are just in denial about yours. You are no different to Trump.

    ps I mentioned the Native Americans because I find it funny you refer to the whole American continent as 'America' and don't realise the irony that involves when talking about imperialism.
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  7. #97  
    Registered Member Andrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Cape View Post
    Thessaloniki

    Ah yes, Andrew the true representative of what the Greek people wanted in 1821. Let us take his infinite wisdom over the evidence of academics who clearly point out that Greece was not an independent country until 1832, and only then because of intervention from the British, French and Russians.

    I am not pro monarchy I am pro peace, I was pointing out to you that comparing the constitutional monarchies of countries like Denmark and the Netherlands to a dictatorship is a bad faith argument. I also pointed out that claiming only monarchies practiced imperialism is wrong because the US has done it to.

    You, the little American brought up the jingoistic nonsense about how imperialism is whatever countries do. I know my country is imperialistic, you are just in denial about yours. You are no different to Trump.

    ps I mentioned the Native Americans because I find it funny you refer to the whole American continent as 'America' and don't realise the irony that involves when talking about imperialism.
    Your argument is gone.

    Go Quote me on all 4 of those statements.

    - I Said America was founded on Mass-Genocide -> Native Amerians. Go Pick up a book and read about "Kill the Indian, Save the Man' By Pratt.
    - I Said I was happily willing to point out all the pitfalls that america has done with Imperialism -> You however Ignored the scale that America as we know as the Imperialistic Conquerer, has only been around for 300 years, not 500,000 years.
    - Not being an independent Country is exactly part of the problem, but you can't be Independent if you HAVE BEEN CONQUERED, the "intervention" of the British, French, and Russia, is the same exact sphiel of intervention that all these nations are doing in the Middle East, when in reality the true objective is to gain more power. Do you have any idea how much those countries profited from the time era in their actions?
    - To IGNORE THE PEOPLE is TO IGNORE OUR FREEDOM, NO ONE IN GREECE WANTED THAT to the Point were Radical Groups were being formed just to protect the Parthenon from all the nations trying to conquer and steal our assets. It's a game of $$$ and the best part? 300 years later you won't return it, and what I love even more is all the articles you'll find online are all biased and ignore Greece's points of view, which you would know what they are if you just simply visit the Museum next time you travel there.

    - Thessaloniki is definitely a beautiful island, it referred to as the "Party Island" lol so i hope you had some fun there

    if you want to see some draw dropping views I 10/10 recommend Meteora from the Byzantine Era [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] I went a couple years ago and it's breathtaking, but depending on what you want to view, different parts of the country are known for different "features" if that makes sense, HMU next time you go, Im usually there every summer (except for now during Corona lol)
    Last edited by Andrew; 10-15-2020 at 08:24 PM.
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  8. #98  
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    Do you really think England has been around for 500k years? I thought that was an exaggeration at first. The birth of the empire is a Tudor phenomena (around five hundred years), and the conquest of India (and also Africa) did not even really begin until after the US was founded as the English decided that losing America was a huge blow and they needed more land elsewhere to manage the French and Russia. Idk what you are saying anymore tbh. We have the same opinion on the genocide of Native Americans, we both know America was imperialistic, We disagree over these marbles that you mentioned for some reason? Are you a Greek American? I'm having trouble understanding why these are such a contentious issue for you.

    Serious question how many museums have you been in because if we returned everything there would be a mass exodus of culture all over the world. The US definitely has a huge foreign collection itself.
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  9. #99  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Cape View Post
    Do you really think England has been around for 500k years? I thought that was an exaggeration at first. The birth of the empire is a Tudor phenomena (around five hundred years), and the conquest of India (and also Africa) did not even really begin until after the US was founded as the English decided that losing America was a huge blow and they needed more land elsewhere to manage the French and Russia. Idk what you are saying anymore tbh. We have the same opinion on the genocide of Native Americans, we both know America was imperialistic, We disagree over these marbles that you mentioned for some reason? Are you a Greek American? I'm having trouble understanding why these are such a contentious issue for you.

    Serious question how many museums have you been in because if we returned everything there would be a mass exodus of culture all over the world. The US definitely has a huge foreign collection itself.
    There's a reason why you're on a separate list on the beginning of the thread lol, but you always get your own spot (from anyone else, in a good-way)

    It's important to recognize how Nations were divided, just as you referred to Greece being under the Ottomons, the same exact occurrence has happened with all nations under different regimes.

    England as we refer to was formed in 927 for parts of the discussion, still roughly 1000 years before Before "America" declared it's independence.

    However. England was part Byzantine Empire prior to that, but historically even before that was the Roman Empire, as was the vast majority of nations, and what irks me is the fact that a Monarch not only conquered the Nation, but ultimately morphed into that same exact Conquer that had once conquered them, (now in no way are the individuals the same, but when you flush out a society, you begin to breed hostility that passes on for generation and generations to come.)

    Let me though make this clear. I DO NOT support the Imperialistic Actions of the United States, nor have I ever.

    The moment I learned about Kill the Indian, Save the Man which I recommend everyone reading [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    is the moment I realized the Horrors of the roots of the true roots of our Nations.

    Im 100% Greek, born in America, with my entire family being from Greece

    I've been to quite a few Museums in Paris and in Greece and Australia.

    The Louve was beautiful, but when you walk through it, you realize what Imperialistic Conquering has done to our world.

    All the assets stolen and collected from times of war is just shameful to see.

    In-Terms of the US, I've been to quite a few more here than abroad (obviously) but that doesnt excuse the fact of all the issues that surround this.

    If a nation has stolen property from another, that property must be given back, I frankly do not care when it was taken. Assets are Assets.
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  10. #100  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
    There's a reason why you're on a separate list on the beginning of the thread lol, but you always get your own spot (from anyone else, in a good-way)

    It's important to recognize how Nations were divided, just as you referred to Greece being under the Ottomons, the same exact occurrence has happened with all nations under different regimes.

    England as we refer to was formed in 927 for parts of the discussion, still roughly 1000 years before Before "America" declared it's independence.

    However. England was part Byzantine Empire prior to that, but historically even before that was the Roman Empire, as was the vast majority of nations, and what irks me is the fact that a Monarch not only conquered the Nation, but ultimately morphed into that same exact Conquer that had once conquered them, (now in no way are the individuals the same, but when you flush out a society, you begin to breed hostility that passes on for generation and generations to come.)

    Let me though make this clear. I DO NOT support the Imperialistic Actions of the United States, nor have I ever.

    The moment I learned about Kill the Indian, Save the Man which I recommend everyone reading [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    is the moment I realized the Horrors of the roots of the true roots of our Nations.

    Im 100% Greek, born in America, with my entire family being from Greece

    I've been to quite a few Museums in Paris and in Greece and Australia.

    The Louve was beautiful, but when you walk through it, you realize what Imperialistic Conquering has done to our world.

    All the assets stolen and collected from times of war is just shameful to see.

    In-Terms of the US, I've been to quite a few more here than abroad (obviously) but that doesnt excuse the fact of all the issues that surround this.

    If a nation has stolen property from another, that property must be given back, I frankly do not care when it was taken. Assets are Assets.
    Ok in that case I can understand your position on the marbles more. I do not mean it as any offence to your nation, I have no idea what the museums are like in Greece but if you have any British assets I could not care less really, so long as they are well maintained, and even then it is not like it effects me in particular. The history of my nation is not my history, this is what nationalism tells me but this is not true. I am a person of the world, 'British' history is no more mine than 'Greek' history. I should like assets from both countries to be treated properly, but it does not really bother me where they reside, or what country looks after them. I just did not understand why you singled out the British for this when it is done universally.
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