Thread: Thoughts on Tech Cultures Choice of Words Being Changed

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  1. #11  
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    I always derive such pleasure from killing the child process.
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  3. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacklist View Post
    I always derive such pleasure from killing the child process.
    "Kill" will be changed to "terminate", sorry lad can't be condoning death either
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  5. #13  
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    Yes let's ban the words 'master' because that is the cause of racism... Banning words will disallow people from being mean. So let's also replace words like 'idiot' with 'cutie'. Like on a serious note, all this political correctness bs is not making any sense. Everyone is trying to act so insanely pious yet I have to see people actual behave in that way.

    Edit:
    As some people were too full of themselves to get the point of my message: I'm not debating if the word 'master' is the cause of racism or if it is just being a racist connotation. That line was clearly written with irony and written down to get my point across. My point is that there is no reason to ban everything that potentially!! could link with racism when the actual problem is right in front of your eyes. To me it seems more like an excuse to look away from the actual problem.

    To the people that think you should use the reputation system as forum: the definition of forum is 'a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.' You can't properly exchange ideas or views if you attempt to use the reputation system as a one way exchange method. If you are so narcissist that you behold your opinion or statement as a fact, you are doing it on a wrong platform.
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  7. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curiousity View Post
    Yes let's ban the words 'master' because that is the cause of racism... Banning words will disallow people from being mean. So let's also replace words like 'idiot' with 'cutie'.
    I appreciate the attempt at a strawman. However, literally no one was arguing this. The idea is not that the words cause racism but, rather, simply, that they are problematic terms with oppressive connotations.

    A prime example of terminology that has blatantly and undeniably oppressive origins is the master-slave metaphor. People have been trying to change this one for years; examples include [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] in 2014, and [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] in 2018. This particular change has been a long time coming and is not purely a dumb reactionary response to the recent protests in the United States.

    Ok, but why bother, you may ask? You're probably right that it's not a giant deal, but on the other hand, it is easily fixed by a CTRL+F replace. This is not the kind of thing wasting dozens of hours of engineering time, and if it makes somebody feel more included, then I don't see why we have to cling to slavery-based terms when we have other options available.

    1. Contrary to what people may claim, it is absolutely 100% derived from the enslavement of other people and emerged during the slavery era
    2. It's often not actually the best available metaphor


    For #1, you could argue it maybe devalues the original meaning or reduces the impact those words have, and I'm sure there are some people that genuinely are offended by it.

    Is it a bit too PC? Yeah, maybe. Are there more meaingful ways we could work towards inclusivity? Absolutely. Does changing it harm me, though? No, not really.

    Point #2, however, is a more compelling reason for me. As I've mentioned, there are better metaphors linguistically:

    • "Follower" probably more accurately represents the power structure that inanimate objects and software have with their "leader" nodes; slaves can rebel, whereas followers are almost inherently stupid by definition
    • Many pieces of software allow follower nodes to transmit data or control other nodes (e.g., replicas of replica databases, slaves of slaves in DAW components, etc) - to me, the concept of slaves owning slaves is a bit silly


    Replacing the terminology allows us to be ever so slightly more inclusive and gives us more accurate metaphors. The only cost is a find and replace search. I don't see the point in crying so much over the change.

    On the other hand, renaming less-direct things like the "master" branch, when it honestly refers more to the concept of a master recording—like in audio—than it does any sort of power-dynamic with the other branches, is probably closer to a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water. But, again, the intentions are good and it's a tiny change, so I don't see the point in screeching about it either.

    People worried about it breaking scripts (cc: @[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) probably shouldn't be either; you should have never been hardcoding "master" and expecting it to exist. There is nothing saying that the default branch needs to be called master and I've seen quite a few migration tools for other version control systems that preserve the primary branch names (e.g., "default" in the case of Mercurial or "trunk" for SVN).

    Consider this an opportunity to make tools that suck less.

    Aside from the whole master-slave thing, there is also the concept of blacklisting and whitelisting that has been changing as well. That is probably more insidious than the master-slave metaphor because it and similar speech are so prevalent in our language. Even though the actual etymology is absolutely not racist and does not refer to black people, associations with the color black unfortunately do seem to have real-world consequences for darker-skinned individuals (see: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]).


    Quote Originally Posted by Curiousity View Post
    Edit:
    As some people were too full of themselves to get the point of my message: I'm not debating if the word 'master' is the cause of racism or if it is just being a racist connotation. That line was clearly written with irony and written down to get my point across. My point is that there is no reason to ban everything that potentially!! could link with racism when the actual problem is right in front of your eyes. To me it seems more like an excuse to look away from the actual problem.

    To the people that think you should use the reputation system as forum: the definition of forum is 'a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.' You can't properly exchange ideas or views if you attempt to use the reputation system as a one way exchange method. If you are so narcissist that you behold your opinion or statement as a fact, you are doing it on a wrong platform.
    I would probably neg you twice if I could, tbh


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    Last edited by arseny; 06-21-2020 at 12:14 AM. Reason: anime


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  9. #15  
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    Nobody cared about racism in america until some dude in minneapolis died during an election year against trump ;D
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andys1814 View Post
    Nobody cared about racism in america until some dude in minneapolis died during an election year against trump ;D
    what is the implication here


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  11. #17  
    Registered Member Curiousity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arseny View Post
    I appreciate the attempt at a strawman. However, literally no one was arguing this.
    The reason you say this is because you attempted to use the reputation system as forum.... I was not responding to your 'neg'. You might now see why it doesn't make sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by arseny View Post
    I would probably neg you twice if I could, tbh
    I genuinly don't care about you negging me. I did not write that because I was annoyed by anyone negging me. What annoyed me is that people use the reputation system as a one way communication system. Besides that you are proving my point of people acting insanely pious. You think you are all about inclusion of different groups yet you try to lock out people with different opinions. You support small causes that really are kind of irrelevant (at least in my opinion and you basically admitted that yourself), yet you are the one that excludes people. Unless you are going to argue that 'negging' someone is something that implies inclusion.

    And you wrote down that wall of text to seem smart? Looks to me like you copy people on this forum that are actually knowledgeable and have the skills to argue properly. You also claim random things such as that I don't want the word to be changed. I never said that and don't agree with that. I just don't see the point. Lastly, you helped me to prove my point: don't just act pious but actually behave like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curiousity View Post
    What annoyed me is that people use the reputation system as a one way communication system.
    its not one way, u can rep back =]

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  14. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scu11 View Post
    its not one way, u can rep back =]
    1) That defeats the purpose of a forum
    2) No, as far as I know I can't. (unless you're telling me that I should give positive reputation)
    3) The system is really akward. People gave it the name 'negging' which to me sounds insanely childish. It really feels like people use it to show their supremacy on a forum. This would in turn make anyone that tries to fight against white supremacy really ignorant and hypocrite. Yes it is a really different subject, but why would one only care about fighting for equality and inclusion based on skin color and not on other grounds?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curiousity View Post
    1) That defeats the purpose of a forum
    2) No, as far as I know I can't. (unless you're telling me that I should give positive reputation)
    3) The system is really akward. People gave it the name 'negging' which to me sounds insanely childish. It really feels like people use it to show their supremacy on a forum. This would in turn make anyone that tries to fight against white supremacy really ignorant and hypocrite. Yes it is a really different subject, but why would one only care about fighting for equality and inclusion based on skin color and not on other grounds?
    negged cause white

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