Thread: Facing a future where women are still paid 23% less than men for the same work

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  1. #71  
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    lol whoever really thinks trump isn't a racist is a silly goober (and no this isn't coming from a frothing liberal)

    just to debunk all of his statements as "not literal" or just "extreme rhetoric" is even more stupid when any real politician would be castrated for it if there wasn't an obvious synonymous link between trump and mediocrity

    people take whatever he says as just "trump behavior" or a "joke" which pretty much says everything about his situation, pretty embarrassing tbh. no conservative can ride on a trump platform and expect to do well, kinda tells you something there as well again. trump is 1 of a kind which isn't a compliment by any means

    embarrassment to an already struggling party that deems progressiveness as aids (which they did nothing for when it really mattered in the 80s)

    oh what progress even now, its just silly homos right
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  2. #72  
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    I don't think gender is largest factor in your pay. As you increase your market value, you gain control. If you're just working a low-skill job, they might be able to get away with it because there's high competition and low contribution. If you're creating a value for a company, and know how much that value is worth to them, then you can negotiate.

    Women are more risk-averse, and less competitive in nature. They will largely tend to behave "safely" and not become the outliers of the working world. It's more general attitude, intelligence, and personality that ultimately dictates your contribution to a business, and as a consequence, your value.

    Nobody is forced to do anything. The statistics are the way they are because the individuals accounted for are allowing it to happen by doing nothing about it but going on the internet to complain about it. If I've learned anything, most people who complain are just trying to compensate for the fact they are losers of their own volition.
    Last edited by funkE; 02-08-2018 at 02:43 AM.
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  3. #73  
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    It's not as easy as "demanding more" for your skill level. You could be extremely skilled, but if your employer is prejudice, then you're shit out of luck. The same reason why rich folks are more likely to hire a young female secretary over a young male secretary. The same reason why black people get profiled walking into stores being monitored 24/7 while the young white girl is stuffing items into her purse. I know for a fact i've had some unfair advantages given to me because I was a male over some of my female co-workers. And I also know that while I was younger that I was passed up on opportunities simply because of my age. It's just basic stereotyping. Yes, stereotypes are generally based upon statistics, but it's just plainly unfair to lump everyone into the same category. Maybe Ashton Kutcher should stop using his position to advocate for children in the sex trafficking trade. Maybe his organization that dedicates their time and has saved countless people should not exist. Maybe everyone should just mind their own business. Wrong. Maybe if you're a god damn asshole, then thats how you view things, but believe it or not the world doesn't revolve around you. We're all on this shitty planet together and it's everyone job to work together to make the best out of a shitty situation. You don't have to like somebody, but everyone deserves to be treated with respect and given a fair opportunity.

    The "cool" thing about bullying and mistreating others is that it gives you a sense of power and makes you feel better about yourself, but at the end of the day you really have to wonder why you're doing these things. Were you taught this by someone? Do you have a chemical imbalance in your brain that doesn't allow you to feel certain things? Or maybe you're just trying to hide the pain of something that happened to you previously in life.

    And imo if you don't think Trump is moderately racist, then you're a bigger tool than he is. He started the whole "birther" conspiracy for fucks safe. Who else will vehemently claim that Obama is a Muslim for years and years without any real solid proof. He even claimed multiple times that the President should be blamed for government shut downs during Obama's presidency and now hes saying that the Democrat's are to blame. His idiotic supporters believed him when he told them that Mexico would pay for the wall and now everyone is feeling the effects. His toupee is on too tight, but it's unfortunate that some people are comfortable with living under this delusion of grandeur that he they think he gives off for "speaking his mind". Hes like your drunk racist uncle at the Thanksgiving dinner.
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  4. #74  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goody View Post
    but it's just plainly unfair to lump everyone into the same category. Maybe Ashton Kutcher should stop using his position to advocate for children in the sex trafficking trade.
    You were going smoothly until this point. Nobody is saying "everyone should be in the same category", we're saying that everybody should have equal treatment regardless of skin colour, gender, sex, race, etc. This does NOT mean that we strip away the social status of people who genuinely earned it and built a name for themselves, it means everybody should come from the same starting point.
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  6. #75  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thakiller View Post
    You were going smoothly until this point. Nobody is saying "everyone should be in the same category", we're saying that everybody should have equal treatment regardless of skin colour, gender, sex, race, etc. This does NOT mean that we strip away the social status of people who genuinely earned it and built a name for themselves, it means everybody should come from the same starting point.
    Actually thats exactly what the person above me was talking about lol. Referring to all women as being less competitive and and their nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by funkE View Post
    Women are more risk-averse, and less competitive in nature. They will largely tend to behave "safely" and not become the outliers of the working world. It's more general attitude, intelligence, and personality that ultimately dictates your contribution to a business, and as a consequence, your value.

    Nobody is forced to do anything. The statistics are the way they are because the individuals accounted for are allowing it to happen by doing nothing about it but going on the internet to complain about it. If I've learned anything, most people who complain are just trying to compensate for the fact they are losers of their own volition.
    And yeah I don't think I ever argued about the part you're talking about. There were like 3 people making ridiculous comments such as "Celebrities should stay out of politics", "Trumps not racist", and the arguing over "everyone has an equal opportunity" when thats just not plainly true. I wrote that in like 5 minutes so it could have been more thought out, sure. Everyone should come from the same starting point, but some don't. You can build an empire from nothing true enough, but a lot of the times it's sheer luck and nothing to do with skill. If you're born with a silver spoon or you just have great connections from family or friends, then you're already above everyone else. It doesn't mean you're guaranteed success, but it certainly doesn't hurt. I don't think I mentioned stripping away social status at all. If you're referring to Ashton Kutcher that was sarcasm
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  7. #76  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goody View Post
    Actually thats exactly what the person above me was talking about lol. Referring to all women as being less competitive and and their nature.
    You didn't quote anybody so I wasn't sure who or what you were referencing to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thakiller View Post
    You didn't quote anybody so I wasn't sure who or what you were referencing to.
    Yeah that was my bad lol. I re-read what I wrote and it's a jumbled up pile of shit lmao, but quoting everyone would have been way too much effort than I was down for
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  9. #78  
    Facing a future where women are still paid 23% less than men for the same work



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    Quote Originally Posted by Thakiller View Post
    You were going smoothly until this point. Nobody is saying "everyone should be in the same category", we're saying that everybody should have equal treatment regardless of skin colour, gender, sex, race, etc. This does NOT mean that we strip away the social status of people who genuinely earned it and built a name for themselves, it means everybody should come from the same starting point.
    This can be summarized by saying that you're for "equality of opportunity" but not "equality of outcome".

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  11. #79  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goody View Post
    And yeah I don't think I ever argued about the part you're talking about. There were like 3 people making ridiculous comments such as "Celebrities should stay out of politics", "Trumps not racist", and the arguing over "everyone has an equal opportunity" when thats just not plainly true. I wrote that in like 5 minutes so it could have been more thought out, sure. Everyone should come from the same starting point, but some don't. You can build an empire from nothing true enough, but a lot of the times it's sheer luck and nothing to do with skill. If you're born with a silver spoon or you just have great connections from family or friends, then you're already above everyone else. It doesn't mean you're guaranteed success, but it certainly doesn't hurt. I don't think I mentioned stripping away social status at all. If you're referring to Ashton Kutcher that was sarcasm
    I didn't quote you, I wasn't responding to you, I was just dropping by without reading the discussion because I figured it would be out of control with no organization. It is true, nobody is forced to do anything. Everyone has the potential to go from nothing to everything. You need to act in a way which increases your odds of success. It's probabilities. It's not luck. It's more than skill. It doesn't matter what you're born with, it's the ability to utilize resources you've been provided and acquire more to utlilize.

    In your example of spoon-fed children, they start with a lot. But I can think of a lot of people who didn't amount to shit and still had all of that opportunity. I think a better question would be: What is most common between successful people? How do we build a model of how to be successful when the world is full of variables? What variables need to be tweaked to maximize probability for success?

    I'll go ahead and make the case that nobody should come from the same starting point, it's not a very well thought out idea with many unforeseen issues. How do you determine where everyone "starts"? It sounds like a good idea when you're a kid with nothing, I felt the same way. You want to get a head start and a helping hand. Why do you need that? Who is paying for it? Is the individual incapable of creating it? You can create it, and at the moment, everyone is solely responsible for making it happen for themselves. It's what makes doing well feel so good, when you take control of your life and make it happen, realizing that it's a lot easier once you get out of your own way, starting with the belief that you can't do it alone.

    So, to avoid having a mindless discussion about celebrities and Trump, let's try and actually classify the thing we're talking about then yearn for objective discussion. In every single discussion about equal opportunity I've ever seen, there's just chaos and noise because most people don't know how to discuss anything in general, let alone these issues. I'll give governments some credit, at least they can organize thoughts and take action. Until we learn to play the same game, or at least understand the game enough to change the rules, both sides will always cry foul.

    When people talk about equal opportunity I feel like they're always talking jobs. The high majority being shitty jobs, where the worker has little leverage to negotiate compensation for the value they bring to the table. What are some jobs where this isn't the case?
    I think it makes sense to exclude any low-skill jobs from discussion for now, and address that issue later, as that is a little more complex when you consider the potential ramifications involving corporations employing those people (automation, layoffs, etc.).

    Like it or not, this is a place where a lot of young people tend to come and talk. People like to treat rune-server as a joke, and it very well may be, but at the end of it we're all in the same boat regardless of the URL at the top. I reserve hope for people here to be capable of actually discussing anything meaningful, while being mindful of their words, and thoughtful in their ideas.

    This is the world the youth inherits. We, as young people, need to realize this sort of thing hurts everyone when we can't figure it out or even have a level-headed discussion about anything.
    Last edited by funkE; 02-10-2018 at 08:13 AM.
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  12. #80  
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    Watch this video and then try again to explain equality. Men and women being equal is an extreme misconception. Should they be treated equal? Yes, and they are. Are they physically and mentally equal? No, they are not. Hense why men often work harder labor jobs, and women often work jobs such as a secretary or teacher. Men and women are NOT equal mentally and physically, and I'm not saying one side is better than the other. It just kills me when people beg for equality as if women don't have the same opportunities to live their lives and enjoy them.

    Link to video:

    Please watch, and then re-consider equality and what it means...
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