Thread: Attack in london.

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  1. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Lev518 View Post
    This is probably why:
    Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful."
    Let's tackle this
    "Fitnah" does not mean disbelief, there is no mention of the word Kafir or Kufr, so that's wrong first of all. Using the following source: https://quran.com/2/191-193

    "And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers."

    Just like any document, context is important (though it seems like a circle jerk counter argument, it's true). This Surat was supposedly revealed in a period of time known as Hijra, meaning the migration to Medina. The pagans of Makkah were attacking the Muslims, and this verse was revealed allowing them to fight back. Even taking in the former verse:

    "Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors."

    The focus is on maintaining peace, but fight back if they have no intentions of making peace. This message is then re-iterated in the next Aayat:

    "And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

    So instead of this being a passage of aggression, it maintains that the Quran still maintains peace when approaching Jihad. The fact that there was even a series of Aayats needed to warrant them fighting back says enough

    I cba writing another essay, but before you critique the Quran, just read the verses yourself, understand the importance of the Surat, and use a good source (Quran.com is fine).
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  2. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    if you think the perpetrators of these attacks are muslim then why does the same thing happen 10 times more frequently to muslims in the east?

    People who use a crime of hate and terror as an excuse to spout their own hateful views do more harm than the attack itself: fear and segregation are the real outcomes all terrorists desire, and those of you who fan the flames are the accomplices.
    There is more than one sect of Islam and each sect believes their version is the one true way. Sunnis and Shiites dislike eachother more than they dislike the Jews. Otherwise they would have set their differences asside and have committed a genocide of the Jews in Israel by now like they tried to do separately during the Israel independence war, 6 day war, reprisal operations, etc etc etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure. View Post
    There is more than one sect of Islam and each sect believes their version is the one true way. Sunnis and Shiites dislike eachother more than they dislike the Jews. Otherwise they would have set their differences asside and pretty much have committed a genocide of the Jews in Israel by now like they tried to do during the 6 day war.
    What does that have to do with anything? rofl
    You can put the history book down now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elija View Post
    What does that have to do with anything? rofl
    You can put the history book down now.
    Just saying there are different sects of Islam and each have believes that differ greatly. We shouldn't be seeing them as a single identity with similar ideologies.

    Perhaps their inherent hatred for eachother fuels the terror attacks when theyre not in their cultural enclaves and can't adapt or assimilate to a mainstream culture?
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Lev518 View Post
    This is probably why:
    Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful."

    and this:
    Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers"

    and this:


    and this:


    and this:
    Attached image

    and on and on.



    The quran also says, "respect the laws of the country you reside in".
    and the UK Clearly doesn't allow killing of the innocent.
    i also have another strange theory, about this attack. posting momentarily.

    and to support tommehs point.
    Link: Yes, the Bible Does Say to Kill Infidels

    not sure if it an accurate and reliable source of information, will be doing more research into this matter.
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  6. #26  
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    Muslims aren't doing this. It says in the quran that once you've killed someone for no reason, you're not a muslim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Idiot Dansker View Post
    Don't you dare mention moslems, moslems are peaceful and can do no wrong unlike the rest of the impure population.

    ur probably a straight white male, u should be ashamed of urself.
    True
    - I don't give a fuck if your black, white, gay, lesbian, bisexual or whatever. If your nice with me, I'm also nice with you, that's it.
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  7. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeem View Post
    Muslims aren't doing this. It says in the quran that once you've killed someone for no reason, you're not a muslim.

    well to be accurate it says, "killing a single person, is like killing humanity.
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  9. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    if you think the perpetrators of these attacks are muslim then why does the same thing happen 10 times more frequently to muslims in the east?

    People who use a crime of hate and terror as an excuse to spout their own hateful views do more harm than the attack itself: fear and segregation are the real outcomes all terrorists desire, and those of you who fan the flames are the accomplices.
    They practise Islam and consider themselves Muslim; who are you or I to say otherwise (do/did you intend to pull a no-true-scotsman)? You should research attacks in the East to find out why they happen - It will usually be done against rival sects of Islam (eg. against Shias), Christians, or for political reasons (pro-Shariah/anti-democratic attacks are most common worldwide, "retributive" attacks more in the West). Appeasement as you suggest may feel nice, but won't work out in the long term.

    You talked in the shoutbox about Western intervention in the Middle-East as though it was the "cause" of Islamic Terrorism. In some cases this is true, but not usually. Terrorism occurs anywhere with sizeable Muslim populations (eg. China, India, south-east Asia - Philippines and Indonesia in particular, the West, Russia, etc, etc) - usually in the form of separatist Islamic groups (or groups trying to take the country as a whole - such as Iraq/Syria with IS) - for the purpose of building states of fundamental Islam.

    (all links are just random examples. you will find many more from a wide variety of groups)


    Personally, I consider mass-murder to be a bit more of an issue than "fear and segregation" (even though no one is imposing or enforcing segregation, and even if those crazy right-wing bacon-on-mosque attacks are really spooky). I say that mockingly but actual violent attacks by any group is important to find a resolve for - they don't excuse each other. Islamic terrorism just happens to be the most deadly and relevent form atm (Inb4usaisterroristmeme).

    The religion needs a reformation, similar to that of Christianity ... unfortunately you have a lot of people constantly trying to excuse violent actions committed in the name of Islam with whataboutism, no-true-scotsman, ad-hominem attacks, and appeals to emotion.
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  10. #29  
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    Feel like the second the election is over with on the 8th, the party who takes it need to start an attack or up our countries defence, these security breaches are happening way too often
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  11. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosslad View Post
    They practise Islam and consider themselves Muslim; who are you or I to say otherwise (do/did you intend to pull a no-true-scotsman)? You should research attacks in the East to find out why they happen - It will usually be done against rival sects of Islam (eg. against Shias), Christians, or for political reasons (pro-Shariah/anti-democratic attacks are most common worldwide, "retributive" attacks more in the West). Appeasement as you suggest may feel nice, but won't work out in the long term.

    You talked in the shoutbox about Western intervention in the Middle-East as though it was the "cause" of Islamic Terrorism. In some cases this is true, but not usually. Terrorism occurs anywhere with sizeable Muslim populations (eg. China, India, south-east Asia - Philippines and Indonesia in particular, the West, Russia, etc, etc) - usually in the form of separatist Islamic groups (or groups trying to take the country as a whole - such as Iraq/Syria with IS) - for the purpose of building states of fundamental Islam.

    (all links are just random examples. you will find many more from a wide variety of groups)


    Personally, I consider mass-murder to be a bit more of an issue than "fear and segregation" (even though no one is imposing or enforcing segregation, and even if those crazy right-wing bacon-on-mosque attacks are really spooky). I say that mockingly but actual violent attacks by any group is important to find a resolve for - they don't excuse each other. Islamic terrorism just happens to be the most deadly and relevent form atm (Inb4usaisterroristmeme).

    The religion needs a reformation, similar to that of Christianity ... unfortunately you have a lot of people constantly trying to excuse violent actions committed in the name of Islam with whataboutism, no-true-scotsman, ad-hominem attacks, and appeals to emotion.
    Why do you think that the religion needs a reformation when it isn't the religion instructing the attack? People will warp any ideology to fit their own narrative
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